Comments on: Do Karate and Grappling Mix? http://myselfdefenseblog.com/http:/myselfdefenseblog.com/do-karate-and-grappling-mix/ Reviews of common self-defense, karate, and MMA issues Mon, 06 Sep 2010 18:51:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: John W. Zimmer http://myselfdefenseblog.com/http:/myselfdefenseblog.com/do-karate-and-grappling-mix/comment-page-1/#comment-993 John W. Zimmer Sun, 02 Nov 2008 21:52:57 +0000 http://myselfdefenseblog.com/?p=120#comment-993 Thanks for your insight Matt. I just took the seminar at Todd's studio (American Kenpo Karate in San Diego) and am real sore and humble today! :) . I echo Terry Crook's statement that there is allot of thinking involved in jui jitsu, way more then I had to do in karate. With karate, after I became good at it, I would economize motion and save wind for the flurries... relaxing the rest of the time. I rolled with Mick Leone and found I was exhausted in short order. I could not just rely on muscle memory (I had no memory) of striking the openings as I could in karate. . Anyway - I agree with you that ground fighting should be part of any overall fighting strategy - even if you don't end up on the ground. Thanks for your insight Matt. I just took the seminar at Todd’s studio (American Kenpo Karate in San Diego) and am real sore and humble today! :)
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I echo Terry Crook’s statement that there is allot of thinking involved in jui jitsu, way more then I had to do in karate. With karate, after I became good at it, I would economize motion and save wind for the flurries… relaxing the rest of the time. I rolled with Mick Leone and found I was exhausted in short order. I could not just rely on muscle memory (I had no memory) of striking the openings as I could in karate.
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Anyway – I agree with you that ground fighting should be part of any overall fighting strategy – even if you don’t end up on the ground.

]]> By: Matt Klein http://myselfdefenseblog.com/http:/myselfdefenseblog.com/do-karate-and-grappling-mix/comment-page-1/#comment-992 Matt Klein Sun, 02 Nov 2008 11:47:31 +0000 http://myselfdefenseblog.com/?p=120#comment-992 Hi Guys, I started training in Jujutsu here in Australia shortly after watching Royce Gracie dominate guys much bigger and stronger. It sold me. When I started, I found that if I could remain standing, my boxing and Kenpo skills kept me in good shape. But they invariably got me to the ground, where I lost to guys 20 lbs. lighter and weaker physically than me. They tied me up like a boa strangles its prey. It was a real eye opener. After training there for over a year, I just got to the point where I could neutralize their skills on the ground, but it took a long time. It takes much more stamina on the ground than people realize. I am of the belief that you must do a lot of sparring on the ground and standing up to get good enough to fight in both areas. It has a lot to do with relaxing and going with the flow, which conserves your energy and gives you more stamina. Any bit of training on the ground is good, but I feel it takes a long time to get really good at it. Hi Guys, I started training in Jujutsu here in Australia shortly after watching Royce Gracie dominate guys much bigger and stronger. It sold me. When I started, I found that if I could remain standing, my boxing and Kenpo skills kept me in good shape. But they invariably got me to the ground, where I lost to guys 20 lbs. lighter and weaker physically than me. They tied me up like a boa strangles its prey. It was a real eye opener. After training there for over a year, I just got to the point where I could neutralize their skills on the ground, but it took a long time. It takes much more stamina on the ground than people realize. I am of the belief that you must do a lot of sparring on the ground and standing up to get good enough to fight in both areas. It has a lot to do with relaxing and going with the flow, which conserves your energy and gives you more stamina. Any bit of training on the ground is good, but I feel it takes a long time to get really good at it.

]]> By: David Hays http://myselfdefenseblog.com/http:/myselfdefenseblog.com/do-karate-and-grappling-mix/comment-page-1/#comment-985 David Hays Sun, 19 Oct 2008 19:06:54 +0000 http://myselfdefenseblog.com/?p=120#comment-985 Thanks John, Looking forward to working out with you at the San Diego seminar in Nov. David Thanks John,

Looking forward to working out with you at the San Diego seminar in Nov.

David

]]> By: John W. Zimmer http://myselfdefenseblog.com/http:/myselfdefenseblog.com/do-karate-and-grappling-mix/comment-page-1/#comment-984 John W. Zimmer Sun, 19 Oct 2008 16:43:06 +0000 http://myselfdefenseblog.com/?p=120#comment-984 Well stated Dave - I'm looking forward to learning transitions and how to keep my preverbal head above water if the fight transitions to the ground! Well stated Dave – I’m looking forward to learning transitions and how to keep my preverbal head above water if the fight transitions to the ground!

]]> By: David Hays http://myselfdefenseblog.com/http:/myselfdefenseblog.com/do-karate-and-grappling-mix/comment-page-1/#comment-982 David Hays Sat, 18 Oct 2008 03:20:28 +0000 http://myselfdefenseblog.com/?p=120#comment-982 Ok here we go, my (old) two cents…….. Gracie was on one of the news shows the other night talking about the original UFC and sharing his views on fighters. After listening and watching him I’m more convinced then ever stand-up fighters we need to gain understanding of how people take you to the ground and of the ground fighting itself. He also talked about the “skill level” of a fighter being the deciding factor. He said, If you have two street bums fighting, the fight will most likely always end up in a wrestling match or go to the ground, however if you have one skilled fighter and one street bum the advantage will go to the skilled fighter. (Of course I paraphrased his comments) So where does that leave us on our discussion of the chicken and the egg, stand up vs. ground fighters (Transition to the ground or ground first)? I’m convinced that if you have a skilled stand up fighter against a guy with moderate to no ground experience (I believe this is most of the people you will face on the street) then him trying to take you to the ground will be a non factor in determining the outcome of the confrontation. Now, if we move up the ladder of experience, and you happen to get into the altercation with an experienced ground fighter, and you just know stand-up, then you have a problem. So I believe we need to break the training into two parts. If we are teaching a student with no formal training at all, then it is probably best to teach the ground work as we teach them the stand-up basics. However, we also need to consider the experienced stand up fighters. If they are already good on their feet, then the focus should be on transitional moves, quick simple defensive moves against someone trying to take them down and ways to get back up should be taught as we learn the ground. It comes down to playing to your strengths……… Example; I have long arms and legs and I’m best on my feet where I can kick and strike people. Why would I not want to stay there and be able to fight from my position of power? My personal goal is to become good enough on the ground so if a fight goes there I do not get my ass kicked, however I no desire to abandon my stand up. And from that view point I need the middle ground filled in for me as I'm learning the ground….. Your thoughts???? Ok here we go, my (old) two cents……..

Gracie was on one of the news shows the other night talking about the original UFC and sharing his views on fighters. After listening and watching him I’m more convinced then ever stand-up fighters we need to gain understanding of how people take you to the ground and of the ground fighting itself.

He also talked about the “skill level” of a fighter being the deciding factor. He said, If you have two street bums fighting, the fight will most likely always end up in a wrestling match or go to the ground, however if you have one skilled fighter and one street bum the advantage will go to the skilled fighter. (Of course I paraphrased his comments)

So where does that leave us on our discussion of the chicken and the egg, stand up vs. ground fighters (Transition to the ground or ground first)?

I’m convinced that if you have a skilled stand up fighter against a guy with moderate to no ground experience (I believe this is most of the people you will face on the street) then him trying to take you to the ground will be a non factor in determining the outcome of the confrontation. Now, if we move up the ladder of experience, and you happen to get into the altercation with an experienced ground fighter, and you just know stand-up, then you have a problem.

So I believe we need to break the training into two parts. If we are teaching a student with no formal training at all, then it is probably best to teach the ground work as we teach them the stand-up basics.

However, we also need to consider the experienced stand up fighters. If they are already good on their feet, then the focus should be on transitional moves, quick simple defensive moves against someone trying to take them down and ways to get back up should be taught as we learn the ground.

It comes down to playing to your strengths……… Example; I have long arms and legs and I’m best on my feet where I can kick and strike people. Why would I not want to stay there and be able to fight from my position of power?

My personal goal is to become good enough on the ground so if a fight goes there I do not get my ass kicked, however I no desire to abandon my stand up. And from that view point I need the middle ground filled in for me as I’m learning the ground…..

Your thoughts????

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