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How many times have I seen stories about karate instructors telling students if someone tries to grab your purse or wallet, you can do the following technique! WHAT? Yes I have heard instructors teaching students to not only defend ones life but personal property in self-defense too!
Understandably this is a hot button issue because on one hand people with the old west mentality will argue that not only is it legal to fight over personal property, but if you know how to fight it is a smart thing to do! Teach the robber a lesson and hold the guy for the cops and such.
In this post I will examine the logic of self-defense of purse or wallet from a legal and common sense framework. Should karate instructors teach students that they should try to defend personal property? Here is a quick video of one good samaritan that did come to a women’s rescue that was being robbed of her purse.
Let me first say this guy should some courage in trying to rescue the girl in this attack. The story did not really say much about the girl other than the robber was after her purse. My question would be was there anything in her purse worth her life? Maybe the robber was really trying to grab the girl or such and if that was the case then it would make sense to fight back.
Buy your heavy bag from Ringside or Everlast.
Do you see where I am going with this now? If the woman was just getting robbed of her purse (money, ID, credit cards), why didn’t she just hand it over – run away and then report the incident to the police? That way she would quickly know if the guy was a robber, rapist, or worse. The guy that came to her rescue could have been killed.
Here is a story about a girl that was accosted by a mugger with a club. The girl quickly gave up her purse and the mugger walked away. This girl decided that nothing in her purse was worth her life. She later reported the incident and got home safely that night. Had the girl fought back for her purse – she mostly likely would have ended up on the hospital at the very least. I think this girl acted just right for the situation.
Is a purse or wallet worth a fight? For most people I would say that the answer is a resounding NO! I mean if fighting is not your day job and you have no idea if you can take a guy with a club or knife – why would you risk it? ID’s, credit cards, keys are all replaceable but your life it not.
This next story here should illustrate my caution when dealing with robbers. One never knows exactly what will happen. A woman was dining with her daughters and left the table to use the restroom. A man walked up and snatched the woman’s purse! One of the girls ran to get her mom’s purse back and was slammed into a door for her efforts.
The girl thought she had to protect her mom’s purse and got hurt for her efforts. I’ll bet the mom feels bad she did not ever tell the girls that fighting for stuff is bad. It was not the girl or mom’s fault obviously but as a parent – you want your children to make good choices that keeps them safe.
Here is a quick video of a karate instructor that starts out with common sense and then quickly digresses into teaching how to fight for stuff.
Would you want your daughter to learn that it is ok fight back if someone is trying to rob you? Sure it is legal to fight back but is it smart? I would say the answer to both questions is a resounding NO!
You can replace everything in a purse or wallet. You cannot replace your life. Fighting is a judgement call and while the law allows one to protect life and property – I think the decision should be funneled through common sense. Intent is everything. If the bad guy is really a rapist or murderer I think everyone would agree – Fight Back! But how can you tell?
One easy way would be to comply with a robber and throw (or drop) the purse or wallet in one direction while you run the other direction! That way you will quickly know if the assailant has other things on his mind. By running towards people – you might just get away. If not your only logical choice will be to fight back.
When is is ok to fight for stuff? As I alluded to earlier, if you are a trained fighter and know the risks (and accept the risks); Sure – fight back if you want to but don’t teach children that fighting for stuff makes sense. In most cases a mugger/robber has a weapon of some kind (to scare victims into compliance) so fighting for stuff in most cases just does not make any sense.
What is your view? Would you teach children to risk life and limb to hold on to a few bucks?
January 18th, 2010 at 8:38 am
Hi John, I’ve been umming and arrring about whether I agree with you or not. I’ve been thinking about the things I regularly carry in my purse and whether they are worth fighting for. I have to say at the end of the day I think you are right – nothing in my purse is worth losing my life over. However, to have my bag snatched would mean days/weeks/months or even years of inconvenience and problems. Locks on both house and car would have to be replaced; credit/debit cards stopped and replaced; driving licence replaced. Then there is the risk of identity fraud and someone using my identity to rack up a load of debt (this could take years to sort out). Yes, there would be potentially a lot of trouble brewed up for the future – but at least I’d be ALIVE! Good post.
January 18th, 2010 at 11:35 am
Hi Sue,
I’ve thought more about this and decided to clean out my wallet of the extra credit cards I don’t use much. Less to deal with if the case ever happened. Thanks for pointing that out… even I might have to take the safer way out for a robber if my family was around or such.
I recall my Dad telling my not to keep a lot of cash on hand. Well as it happened I got robbed once as a kid when scuba diving. Here is a video of some scuba girls for context and then I’ll explain what happened.
We parked up on some nearby cliffs to the one in the video. A bunch of kids started asking us a lot of questions and befriending us while we were getting ready for the dive. We waved back at them from way out on the water. When we got back to the car – they were gone. We packed up and went for some fast food. But when we tried to pay – none of us had any money! The kids took it!
Moral of the story is to don’t carry what you cannot afford to lose. Debit cards and credit cards mitigate some of the risk.
January 19th, 2010 at 1:12 am
It comes down to the individual and what they want to do. If it seems to risky to help someone in trouble then I cannot fault someone but at the same time if someone wants to do something heroic there is nothing wrong with praising that person and calling them a hero.
I would never tell someone they should always give up their wallet. At the same time I wouldnt ever tell someone they never should. Theres many other factors involved.
mixed martial arts´s last blog ..interesting article on bob shamrock
February 14th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
That’s a tough one, and really depends on a lot of situational variables. You don’t always want to wait to test the seriousness of the intent. I mean if you have someone 6 feet away from you demanding your wallet, I’d rather blast him with pepper spray right away instead of tossing the wallet to the right as I run to the left and see if he follows the wallet or me.
Then you have that story from last month in Toledo when the woman got raped on the side of the road in the middle of the day, with cars and people going right by without anyone “coming to her rescue”.
You don’t have to be a hero when a wallet is at stake, but you don’t always want to walk by. It’s a tough call, and the decision is always made in a split second.
self defense Rob´s last blog ..How To: Fighting Stance
February 16th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
I know I would like to think if I came upon a situation where someone was being raped I would try to help as much
as I could. I know if one of my daughters or wife was in that situation I would hope that someone would at least try to stop it. Also call the police. I like your website
you try to educate the public to at lease learn to use self defense weapons to try to get out of trouble. Just be aware of where you are and what you surroundings are.
February 17th, 2010 at 9:04 pm
You should always plan ahead for how you would deal with violent crime, pepper spray, stun guns, and firearms
will always put the odds back in your favor but you must practice the use of each one of them.it is also a very good idea to take a good street self defense class, Kenpo Karate,
Close Combat and Krav Maga are a couple of good ones,always be ready for anything, the safety of the public is in the education of it’s people.
Be Safe, Master Eastman
2nd Dan Tae Kwon Do
5th Dan Combat Tae Kwon Do
February 18th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
Hey Mixed Martial Arts – yep there is a decision to be made for sure… not always easy to discern…
Hi Self Defense Rob – It is good to have options… pepper spray might thwart an otherwise risky defense… sad to know that people don’t help many times.
Hello William Souza – I’m with you here. Even if one is not a fighter – he/she can pick up a stick and try to help the girl out and call the cops. I am troubled by bystanders to an obvious attack on a girl…
Hi Master Jack, – good points about thinking ahead. I’ve always endorsed a layered approach to self-defense. Who knows what layer will work.
February 21st, 2010 at 4:20 pm
I think I am switching to a fanny pack or big pockets in my pants. Sigh…
Good post.
February 21st, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Sly! A good plan – less of a target!
February 22nd, 2010 at 3:44 am
Here is a solution, especially for traveling. I used it in Rio when I heard about the problem with street violence there. Pack a “dummy” wallet (your old worn out one) filled with expired license and expired credit card, and US $20. Keep the rest of your money and good credit card and license in your front pocket where it is very hard to pickpocket. Then if you get rolled, the most you lose is $20 and the jerk won’t cause you the hassle of having to cancel all your cards nor use them.
February 27th, 2010 at 10:17 pm
Matt – I like that. Soon cell phones will all have wireless smart chips in them to make carrying money/credits cards a thing of the past.
April 20th, 2010 at 3:00 pm
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April 21st, 2010 at 8:08 am
Excelent post, I´m totally agree. I said the same message to my students all the time, specially to women, but ” my strongs boys too
”… they love to know how to behaive like Robin Hood… I´m work in every single class about those point over and over, but it looks never be enough.
Oh!, the idea from Matt Klein (a “dummy wallet”) it´s wonderful ( we live in Argentina you know…).
Congrats for your common sense and very interesting comments!.
Best regards from Buenos Aires, it´s not too bad after all
you can visit us any time!
Gustavo Romano – 3° Dan Aikido
Federacón Aikikai Argentina
Aikikai Foundation – Japan
(by the way… sorry by my english, I need a lot of practice!)
April 21st, 2010 at 9:21 pm
Hello Gustavo!
You offer sage advice to your students. You make a good point about getting some students to understand it is better to come away with their safety for sure than argue over a few bucks… money can be replaced.
I’ve always wanted to visit Argentina… such in interesting land from what I used to read. Out in the Western US we have cowboys that use ropes but in Argentina they use bolos? Did I get that right… Anyway I appreciate common sense approaches to self defense too.
By the way your english is fine.
I added a link to your website.
Best,
John
April 22nd, 2010 at 8:50 am
Hi John. Thanks for your comments. Those “bolos” that you mention it, we call “boleadoras”. It´s close yes, because they are three balls of rock covered with leather strips tied to braided leather also, and were used by ours “gauchos” for to bring down animals or enemies, throwing down their legs. Interesting for another tip
Thanks again, we would be happy to visit our country whenever you want. It would be very interesting to organize a seminar to exchange techniques!.
Ok thanks again (I hope it is true that I understand my “spanglish”). I´ll made a llink to your sites and blog soon!.
My regards
Gustavo Romano
April 25th, 2010 at 2:48 am
Gus, I was in Buenos Aires a couple years ago and had a great time. Never ate so well in all my life. Unfortunately, did not get to see the countryside much to check out the boleadoras. Now that would be awesome to see that in action. Curious to know what the predominate martial art is in Argentina.
April 26th, 2010 at 10:12 am
Hi Matt, nice to receive your communication. I’m glad you had a good time in my city, indeed, all people says the same thing about our delicious: “asado” (barbecue is our specialty).
. Also like in other places, here remains the “doma” (training wild horses for use in the countryside). Anyway all these activities can be seen in specially prepared countryside ranchs, for those who want to know and be part of them. It´s very nice.
Today the use of “boleadoras” has practically disappeared, but maintains the use of the rope and lasso to catch cows, bulls or horses in the ranchs, as in the westerns
About martial arts in Argentina you can find all of them, is very difficult to say which one is predominant. Probably Karate, Judo and Take Kwon Do (I´m 3th Dan in that martial art too). I’m talking about numbers of “students”. On the other hand we know that people come and go searching and searching…
Aikido (my lifestyle since 18 years ago) is not the most popular, perhaps because of the philosophy that seeks, perhaps because of the dedication it requires, I don´t know. Personally I think the commitment to its principles are not easy to maintain. Combining this with the corresponding to this blog entry, I can humbly say that around the world, we live in sadly violent times and people are mostly looking to “learn to defend themselves in a few steps!” and Aikido is much more than that: its fundamental principle is to seek Peace and Harmony.
Matt, I visited your website and I congratulate you for your work with children and all your experience. I was school teacher for a lot of years and I’m still in touch with them, it´s wonderful!.
I am honored to communicate with you.
My best wishes (and apologies by my “pampas” english
Gus Romano
May 2nd, 2010 at 5:41 am
Not to worry about your English Gus–it is better than most Americans. Did not realize you had such a wide range of MA in Argentina. I really like the whole philosophy of “going with the flow”, which Aikido is known for. Am releasing a new website in the the next few weeks, which will include a blog, and you are most welcome to post.
John, thanks so much for your kind advice re the blog. Will post the new domain soon.
May 5th, 2010 at 9:50 am
Hi Matt, thanks for your comment. You´re right, there are a wide range of offers to choose according with each “seeker”, even at this time is becoming fashionable full contact and kick boxing… In other hand I´m still with the ideal proyect of build a big center of Asiatics Martial Arts and Harmony (at time I´ll comment you the details if you like). As Your know, this kind of “ideals” in my country needs time, money, patience and effort (and like most of us, I have everything except the needed money). Any way, at this point of my life I confess that I would like continue giving to myself an opportunity to accomplish that goal, I feel it very deep vibrating with my Ki.
Oh sorry, I´ve lose the point. I am really thankfull and honored about participate in your new blog, please let me know as soon as begins!
Best regards.
Gus Romano
July 30th, 2010 at 4:22 am
In general it’s always smarter to just hand over whatever they’re asking for and John has a point: if they still hassle you after that you know they’re after your life or body and you better start fighting like hell. However I understand it’s rather instinctive to try to protect your property (obviously it’s your right) and if everyone just caves in to criminals they’d have a field day. I’d differentiate between an armed attacker and one that is not: when he’s armed there’s no doubt it; don’t be foolish and comply. If he’s not the balance of power is much more even and it could be worth the shot, of course you never know if he hasn’t a weapon on him that he just hasn’t drawn yet or he has a partner lurking in the shadows who might give you a nasty surprise. If I’m ever faced with a gun, a knife, a club or multiple attackers I’d just smile and hand over my wallet (hopefully that will be enough), if I’m sure it’s just one guy and I see no weapon in his hand I’d probably take the chance and fight. It all depends on multiple factors and it’s almost impossible to give advice beforehand, I think on that we all agree. In any case if you decide to fight back you must go all out and put the guy out or it will escalate and you could still be faced with a weapon and a very pissed off attacker to boot. The technique in the video is sound: follow his force and attack his vitals while he’s focused elsewhere, if done quickly it could very well work and if she runs the other direction screaming bloody murder there’s a good chance the guy will bail in order to escape being apprehended.
It’s been suggested here to minimize the benefit to a potential mugger and save yourself a lot of trouble and administrative hassle: don’t carry too much cash on you, don’t put all your valuables in plain sight… All sound advice, especially when going abroad. When credit cards are stolen it’s not such a big deal as long as you immediately call your bank to have them blocked, same for passports, insurance papers and such.
Children should be taught to use common sense and keep themselves safe. However do teach them they have responsibilities too: if you see someone being severely beaten or a woman being raped you don’t have to step in (could be very dangerous for you too) but at least call the cops, yell or do something. It sickens me that people are so selfish these days, especially when they’d want as much help as they could get if they were in the very same situation.