Nut Kicking and Ball Busting Girls?

Posted by: John W. Zimmer
Under: Self-defense
9 Dec 2009

13 Responses to “Nut Kicking and Ball Busting Girls?”

  1. Emilee Maez Says:

    Advantageously, the post is really the greatest on this precious topic. I agree with your conclusions and will eagerly look forward to your coming updates. Saying thanks will not just be adequate, for the phenomenal lucidity in your writing. I will directly grab your rss feed to stay privy of any updates. Gratifying work and much success in your business endeavors!

  2. Dr. J Says:

    As with your training, John, the groin is a legal target in my Kempo training. I didn’t need to be told twice to use a protective cup. I notice with the MMA fighters, how keeping their hands high leaves them open to those “accidental” kicks! I tend to hold a slightly lower guard because of that.

  3. Chris | Martial Development Says:

    Sure, it is possible for some men to shrug off this kick, just as some criminals have shrugged off a bullet wound (for a few crucial minutes, anyway). In self-defense, nothing should be expected to work 100% of the time.

    Furthermore, there is a critical distinction to be made between trying to incapacitate an attacker, and trying to “punish a wrongdoer”. Students should be made to understand that effective self-defense is not about punishment, revenge, or a feeling of empowerment.
    .-= Chris | Martial Development´s last blog ..2009 Review: The Best Kung Fu Movies =-.

  4. John W. Zimmer Says:

    Hi Emilee, Glad you liked the post. I think it is important that women know they can hurt men. It was kind of fun to see some alternate ways of getting this message out there.

    Hi Dr. J, Yep Kempo instilled the flip kick as a reflex. That put me at a real advantage in a street fight. I am kind of an outside fighter at heart and use the wheel kick block as my cover too!

    Hi Chris, I agree that one should not bet the farm on one move but if I could teach a woman just one thing – it would be a snap kick to the groin… the biggest bang for the buck.

    Thanks for keeping me honest here, yes defense and not revenge should be the object. I won’t argue with any motivation so long as the result is just. However I understand how legally a woman could go wrong if she did not stop when it was apparent the attack was over. Good point!

  5. S.Smith Says:

    Oh it makes me cringe. I didn’t watch the whole first video.

    It works against the average dude, no doubt. But I doubt the ball-kick efficacy against a violent perpetrator.

    Years ago I fought in a tournament and got kicked in the balls. I had the wind knocked out of me (or up into me). But fought on for a bit more. When I realized the pain: whoo-ah…it hurt!

    My point is this: if I could put up with it for a bit, then someone in a terrible mind set may put up with it longer. For a violent perpetrators, there are better options.

    Great article and topic, not found many places. Also: nice bit about ball-health.
    .-= S.Smith´s last blog ..How I Found Taiji =-.

  6. Zara Says:

    Obviously the groin-kick is a very potent tool and easy to execute, however I agree it’s not 100% foolproof (then again what is?) and it should always be preceded by or followed up with other techniques. If you start with the groin-kick I’d follow up with either punches or a knee to the face, depending on his reaction. Even if you didn’t make contact his attention will go downstairs, hopefully lowering his defense upstairs. If you made contact he’ll bend over and you’ll have an easy knockout with the knee. Always use combinations: if you only use single attack or counterattack he’ll retaliate and you’ll be a step behind. A great attacking combination (comes from JKD) is a fingerjab to the eyes followed by a kick to the groin: his attention gets drawn upstairs and you nail him downstairs. If women are attacked by a sexual predator or sadist he’ll probably be expecting an attack to the groin (especially if he has experience) that is why women should prepare for the instance where it doesn’t work and they need to shift to other techniques. Most of all you should never telegraph: if you look at his waist the second before you kick him there he’ll know and you’ll pay (unless he’s a complete moron of course). Other than that kicks and knees to the groin are an invaluable tool in any fighter’s arsenal, man or woman. One of the best ways for women to use groin-attacks is probably when they’re grabbed or choked: his attention and hands are occupied and the groin will be an easy, close-by & especially unprotected target.

    As to the defense of pulling up the testicles into the abdominal cavity: this is a very rare skill (plus you’ll have to see the shot coming, which makes it somewhat redundant: if you can see it coming you can block it or at least put your knee/thigh in the way) but it can be done. I saw an episode of Mind, Body & Kickass Moves (BBC) with renowned kung-fu expert Chris Crudelli and there was an old Chinese guy who could do it. Chris kicked him in the nuts and he showed it to him (although not on television, Brits still have some sense of decency). I highly doubt this was faked: the BBC and Crudelli would never risk their reputation by stooping so low. As to the ability to withstand the blow and take the pain: I wouldn’t underestimate the effect of adrenaline and the toughness of the human body: while it is true the great majority of guys will go down after a hit in the balls the effect of adrenaline is very much like that of any synthetic stimulant and it may render an opponent impervious to pain, especially when it’s a life or death situation and you have received previous blows. Perhaps in those situations wrecking the knee might be a better alternative to groin-strikes since it severely limits the opponent’s mobility while not relying on pain to get the desired result.

    Surprisingly there are men who actually enjoy this kind of nauseating pain: I don’t remember the name but apparently in Japan there’s a sort of weird fetish where men get off on taking hits in the groin but then again Japanese society has always been more tolerant of deviating sexual preferences, especially in pornography. While it’s clearly not my cup of tea I’d say live and let live: quite frankly I don’t care what people do in the privacy of their own home and as long as it’s between consenting adults men and women can beat the crap out of each other for all I care. As for girls or women kicking men in the privates for fun or to test the effectiveness: refrain since it’s basically abuse and assault if the guy didn’t give his permission and it can cause severe damage resulting in a stay at the hospital, not to mention permanent infertility so beware. To women feeling this empowers them somehow I would say that a) it’s pretty sad that you can’t feel empowered by your own abilities or talents or worth as a person and b) do not feel too cocky (no pun intended): yes a groin kick can down a man but if he doesn’t go down immediately you can count on it he’ll be seriously pissed-off and you are going to pay.


  7. John W. Zimmer Says:

    Hi S. Smith,

    Yep I have taken plenty of glancing blows to the groin and have been able to tough it out for a bit. As I mentioned to Chris, you should not bet the farm on one move. As you also mentioned there are other options.

    I think we’d agree the first step is for women to get into the dojo and take some training.

    I had a hard time watching the video too. Thanks for your insight.

    Hi Zara,

    I’ve always like using fakes to set up other moves. Women that have little martial arts training will probably not learn this nuance so just going for the commonly taught self defense moves will be what they try.

    The cool thing for women is men discount women’s ability to defend themselves and if the they (the women) play their cards right and use a little surprise – they can usually land a solid groin shot and have time to follow up or get away.

    I’ve always thought some instructors sucking them up out of harms way was more of a pallor trick for all of the chances of a practical application like you said.

    As for the girls practicing on “willing” partners, all I can think to say about that is different strokes for different folks. :)

    Thanks for adding clarity to this subject Zara.

  8. Zara Says:

    I do think follow-ups should be taught to instinctive techniques like the groin-kick, even for women taking up basic self-defense. If it fails or you hurt him but did not put him down or out you’ll be facing a very aggressive attacker who’ll probably be even more violent than before. The problem with the groin-kick as a primary weapon for women is that some men will expect it (if women defend themselves it’s usually with some kind of claw-attack or groin-kick) and a technique you expect is always fairly easy to block or deal with, especially when it’s not part of a combination. If the woman is question is only a one hit-wonder or expects the opponent to always go down as a result from just one technique she could be in for a rude awakening.

    As for women needing to personally experience the effectiveness of a groin-shot on a male target: this is totally unnecessary and it’s usually an excuse to gratify other needs. I don’t need to break someone’s arm to know certain techniques will have that effect just as I don’t need to kick someone in the balls to know he’ll probably bend over in excruciating pain. The effectiveness of martial arts techniques has been proven thousands upon thousands of times so I don’t see the need to hurt someone in order to ‘feel empowered’ or feel confident with my techniques. It’s always funny to see or hear about people questioning the value or effectiveness of techniques while it’s clear to anyone with even half a brain they’ll cause serious damage when properly trained and applied but then again confidence and heart is everything in a fight: you can be the best at kata or have loads of technical expertise but if you don’t keep your cool and seize an opportunity when it’s presented to you (killer-instinct) than it will all be for naught. This is why I still have doubts about the whole concept of women’s self-defense: in theory it’s great to teach women a few simple techniques to defend themselves but if they freeze up or they just can’t summon the necessary aggression and determination they’ll never be able to make it work for them. I’m aware this applies to certain men aswell as women but my experience is that in general men find it easier to train hard and acquire a certain mindset while most women I know that train in the MA will not be able to fight effectively even if their life depended on it. If you don’t train with a certain mindset (at least pretending it’s for real and he’s really out to hurt you) and you complain about minor inconveniences like a bit of rough treatment, fatigue or pain then you probably shouldn’t be training martial arts or at least have no illusions about actually being able to use this stuff for real. If you’ve only driven a vehicle at no more than 30 mph in a safe enviroment than you cannot possibly expect to be able to drive a formule 1-car without crashing.

  9. John W. Zimmer Says:

    Hi Zara, while I agree with your synopsis, I think you are missing the main point why it is important for women to “feel” like a groin shot would work.

    Women their whole lives have had the fact men are stronger, reinforced (positively and negatively). This is some real inertia to overcome for most women as they don’t really believe in their hearts of hearts it is possible for them to best a man in any physical confrontation.

    Even loved ones have fostered this myth due to egos and such. One example I will give is when I showed my step-daughter some self-defense moves (at around 12 years old), her father “proved” to her that it would not work. True there was more going on there but that is the attitude most men take to women really being able to defend themselves.

    The reason I cut women some slack here and want them to think they can defend themselves is because if one believes something, they can achieve it!

    Also many men are threatened by the possibility that women could do something that would incapacitate them! I am not similarly threatened (I don’t know if you are – not saying that), but many men are!

    So men similarly threatened by women having some strikes that could take them out try to say that it would not hurt them to be kicked in the nuts!!!

    True I agree with you that you that women do not need to hurt someone to prove this point… it is obvious to you and me. I am saying what is the harm if they find a willing partner (I don’t understand the willing partner part) and try some light kicks to boost their confidence (poo pooed by men their whole life as impossible) that they CAN hurt men in self-defense!?

    I’ll close with one story about me as a young man and my massive ego. I had an old girl-friend in karate (I think she was a brown-belt at the time) who took and eventually taught a short-term self defense class with a women’s organization. She would come home and tell me that women could with just a short-term self-defense class, successfully defend themselves against men.

    I would smile but say it would not work against me – a black belt and we would end up trying stuff. One time she laid down on the bed and told me to try and have my way with her (pretending I was rapist).

    I came into the room and lunged at her from the foot of the bed. She started up kicking at me to which I easily slapped them away and started to come into her guard (to use modern vernacular). I tried to grab her (because at this point I was thinking this was just role play and I was going to have some fun) thinking I had her now!

    She hooked both of my arms out of the way and poked my forehead with simulated eye shots! She could have just as easily clapped my ears (to break my ear drums) and my visions of a fun daytime romp turned to a realization that I had grossly miscalculated my position of power!

    So here is the deal that I am sure you are aware, women are viewed as sex objects by men and as such and if they play their cards right, men take chances they never would if sex was not on their minds… and woman can and should take any advantage they have if attacked. Including overcoming any psychological disadvantage.

    I’m not sure if we will agree but I appreciate the opportunity to explain my position here. I do think you are on track with this but as I say, woman should be granted some poetic license while they explore their power and belief in self-defense.

  10. Protect Your Home and Family Says:

    For people without these “mad skills” I would recommend the TASER C2 for a non-lethal self defense option.
    .-= Protect Your Home and Family´s last blog ..TASER® Death Questions – Have I Lost My Mind? =-.

  11. AttackBusters Says:

    Not having these skills does not mean that you don’t continue to educate and train yourself in the art of self defense. Tactics can be learned and there instruction for using “non-lethal” weapons is necessary if one chooses to purchase an item like a taser or pepper spray.

  12. fragile industries Says:

    What an interesting blog! I found this googling “self defense women tegner” … long story, but Bruce was a friend, years ago … and came into this conversation!

    Let me add this: my father was a student of Bruce Tegner’s in Los Angeles in the early 60’s and achieved a black belt (in karate I think?). When I was about 10, Dad showed me some basic self-defense moves if anyone ever grabbed me (Batman was very big at the time and even if I was a girl I wanted to punch and pow). I learned some good ones: the two fingers to the eyes, the weak little finger twist, stomping on toes — but appropriately girly defenses.

    A few days later, Bruce came by the house. Dad wanted me to show Bruce my moves as kind of a party trick. Bruce watched solemly, offered a few bits of advice on technique, then asked Dad if he could show me one more move. Dad agreed.

    Bruce stood up and cupped his hands over his crotch. “See this, honey?” he asked helpfully. “If you can get to that with your foot or your knee, hard, you can get away fast.” While Dad tried to catch his breath, Bruce continued, “Even if you have to use your elbow or fist, that’s it, honey, all you need to know.” Bruce sat down. Lesson over.

    Can’t say I ever needed the lesson, thankfully, but I will never forget it or the confidence it gave me!

  13. John W. Zimmer Says:

    Hi Fragile Industries,

    It is really good to hear some of the stories of the great instructors such as Bruce Tegner. I read his books and saw him in some interviews as a child.

    Great idea to keep it simple for teaching a good defense. One of my first karate match ups came from a guy that took lessons and heard I had read some karate books. He asked me what I would do if he tried to attack me.

    I had read Bruce Tegner’s books and as the guy jumped into this beautiful karate stance, I snap kicked the guy from a neutral stance (just standing there with my arms at my side). The kick hit the guy’s knee and he instantly fell to the ground – rolling around holding his knee. Bruce’s techniques really worked.

    Thanks for sharing your experience. :)