Comments on: Grappling/BJJ Against Multiple Attackers; Is it Effective? /grapplingbjj-against-multiple-attackers-is-it-effective/ Reviews of common self-defense, karate, and MMA issues Mon, 31 Oct 2011 22:58:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.3 By: Jack /grapplingbjj-against-multiple-attackers-is-it-effective/comment-page-1/#comment-5700 Jack Wed, 06 Jul 2011 04:00:14 +0000 /?p=2829#comment-5700 This is a great site! I will add it to my site and bookmark it lot's of great self defense information here great job! This is a great site! I will add it to my site and bookmark it lot’s of great self defense information here great job!

]]> By: Matt Klein /grapplingbjj-against-multiple-attackers-is-it-effective/comment-page-1/#comment-5472 Matt Klein Thu, 10 Mar 2011 22:06:37 +0000 /?p=2829#comment-5472 Thanks Jin for commenting. Yes, you are definitely better off on your feet, and looking for the escape is the best course of action against multiple attackers. A good grappling program, like John Will's organization, teaches fast escapes from the ground. Having any kind of weapon, even improvised, evens the odds to some extent. Thanks Jin for commenting. Yes, you are definitely better off on your feet, and looking for the escape is the best course of action against multiple attackers.

A good grappling program, like John Will’s organization, teaches fast escapes from the ground. Having any kind of weapon, even improvised, evens the odds to some extent.
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]]> By: Jin@CombatSportsNews /grapplingbjj-against-multiple-attackers-is-it-effective/comment-page-1/#comment-5471 Jin@CombatSportsNews Thu, 10 Mar 2011 16:59:06 +0000 /?p=2829#comment-5471 One against 3 or 4 opponents hell bent on your destruction is asking too much of any martial artist. Best bet is to strike hard and fast and look for opportunity to escape. BJJ would only be useful if the "fight" goes to the ground. If that happens, you should be looking to escape back to your knees or back to standing in order to escape. Having a bladed weapon would probably be more useful. One against 3 or 4 opponents hell bent on your destruction is asking too much of any martial artist. Best bet is to strike hard and fast and look for opportunity to escape. BJJ would only be useful if the “fight” goes to the ground. If that happens, you should be looking to escape back to your knees or back to standing in order to escape.

Having a bladed weapon would probably be more useful.
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]]> By: Matt Klein /grapplingbjj-against-multiple-attackers-is-it-effective/comment-page-1/#comment-5106 Matt Klein Sun, 30 Jan 2011 00:24:31 +0000 /?p=2829#comment-5106 Thanks for your insights Zara. I agree fully with your last paragraph. There is no substitute for ability to use stand-up striking methods, especially against multiple attackers. I still maintain grappling can be extremely useful, however, when the fight goes to the ground--and you never can predict when it will. Thanks for your insights Zara. I agree fully with your last paragraph. There is no substitute for ability to use stand-up striking methods, especially against multiple attackers. I still maintain grappling can be extremely useful, however, when the fight goes to the ground–and you never can predict when it will.
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]]> By: Zara /grapplingbjj-against-multiple-attackers-is-it-effective/comment-page-1/#comment-5103 Zara Sat, 29 Jan 2011 20:20:16 +0000 /?p=2829#comment-5103 While BJJ is a good, practical fighting art one-on-one and trains attributes that are very useful and necessary in a fight it's general strategy (move in for the takedown, maneuver for superior position and go for the submission) is not suited for multiple opponent situations. Competition matches are not the same as fighting for self preservation: the latter demands a system and training methods that focus on proven, gross motor skills aimed at the most vulnerable points of the human body (striking would seem most useful here), with effective anti-grappling skills (both trained and untrained, so called 'stupid holds' attacks) and weapons training (both with and against at least knife, stick and firearm). In my view this necessitates studying multiple styles to make use of strong suits while complementing the weak points... BJJ contains techniques and training methods that are very good building blocks for a SD system (defense against takedowns, escapes from ground holds) but it is by no means sufficient to ensure adequate protection against real, unregulated violence. Weapons are not an area of study in BJJ (a prime danger in any serious situation) which is a potentially fatal weakness and there is a a major difference in the way throws are trained as compared to other grappling styles: in Japanese JJ you are conditioned to avoid sacrifice techniques (going to the ground with him) as much as possible and to remain standing, BJJ seems to favour remaining in contact with the opponent since throws on the mat are usually not sufficient to cause a knockout and the rules do not favour throwing as a significant means of acquiring points. Throws are very good techniques when executed with speed and power but they should (at least for SD) end with the defender standing (it's very easy to finish a downed opponent, especially when he's dazed from the fall), even if you can get a quick lock or choke on the opponent after following him to the ground it still leaves you vulnerable and to me this is not something you'd want to do if you can help it and certainly not the way you want to condition yourself to act in high stress situations. Ground fighting truly is a last resort and a desperate situation in terms of the added danger of a hidden weapon (you can't fight what you can't see), the strenght and weight advantage that's even more of a factor on the ground (presumably he'll be bigger or stronger than you or he would have left you in peace, BJJ competitions still have weight classes so you won't know if you're going to be equally effective against a bigger, stronger guy) and the oft repeated danger of thuggish friends of his joining in is very real and this often ends in severe injury, paralyses or death. Ground skills for SD should foucus on disengagement and quick reversals followed by striking to injure and distract before getting back up (ground & pound works very well on the street, at least when it's not overdone): locks are fine if you can get them but just remember you don't have time to fish for an arm or maneuver for a choke. If certain BJJ schools teach this all the better but BJJ is essentially a sports art and the logic and training methods are usually geared towards victory on the mat, not the street. I don't agree training locks on the ground exclusively means you can automatically do them standing, let alone with equal skill. If you don't train a specific skill you're not going to be any good at it and the dynamics of standing and ground locks and chokes are completely different, even if they're basically the same techniques. As to the usefulness of grappling in fighting and SD we are in agreement but a true SD system should be comprehensive and teach grappling, striking and weapons, both standing and on the ground. Focussing too much on one category or range will translate into weaker performance in other areas and given the inherently chaotic nature of fighting this could cost you big time. People who only train in BJJ will be vulnerable due to weak striking and too much emphasis on the ground game, training solely in boxing will mean you'll be almost helpless on the ground, training in a weapon system alone will lose it's value when you don't have a weapon handy or you lose it... The solution is clear: find out as much as you can about the various arts, pick the elements that are useful for your purpose and train a system that is simple, effective and comprehensive. This will be your best bet in physical confrontations, of course not getting oneself in bad situations is the superior option (not having to fight means 0% chance of getting hurt or killed) and hence a basic knowledge of human behaviour and common sense are a necessary complement to any fighting system, at least if your aim is to lead a safe and happy life. My answer to your question can be summed up as: yes but only when applied wisely and as a part of an overal strategy geared towards street survival. On its own it's less than ideal and potentially quite dangerous but the same can be said about virtually any single minded/limited style. While BJJ is a good, practical fighting art one-on-one and trains attributes that are very useful and necessary in a fight it’s general strategy (move in for the takedown, maneuver for superior position and go for the submission) is not suited for multiple opponent situations. Competition matches are not the same as fighting for self preservation: the latter demands a system and training methods that focus on proven, gross motor skills aimed at the most vulnerable points of the human body (striking would seem most useful here), with effective anti-grappling skills (both trained and untrained, so called ‘stupid holds’ attacks) and weapons training (both with and against at least knife, stick and firearm). In my view this necessitates studying multiple styles to make use of strong suits while complementing the weak points… BJJ contains techniques and training methods that are very good building blocks for a SD system (defense against takedowns, escapes from ground holds) but it is by no means sufficient to ensure adequate protection against real, unregulated violence. Weapons are not an area of study in BJJ (a prime danger in any serious situation) which is a potentially fatal weakness and there is a a major difference in the way throws are trained as compared to other grappling styles: in Japanese JJ you are conditioned to avoid sacrifice techniques (going to the ground with him) as much as possible and to remain standing, BJJ seems to favour remaining in contact with the opponent since throws on the mat are usually not sufficient to cause a knockout and the rules do not favour throwing as a significant means of acquiring points. Throws are very good techniques when executed with speed and power but they should (at least for SD) end with the defender standing (it’s very easy to finish a downed opponent, especially when he’s dazed from the fall), even if you can get a quick lock or choke on the opponent after following him to the ground it still leaves you vulnerable and to me this is not something you’d want to do if you can help it and certainly not the way you want to condition yourself to act in high stress situations. Ground fighting truly is a last resort and a desperate situation in terms of the added danger of a hidden weapon (you can’t fight what you can’t see), the strenght and weight advantage that’s even more of a factor on the ground (presumably he’ll be bigger or stronger than you or he would have left you in peace, BJJ competitions still have weight classes so you won’t know if you’re going to be equally effective against a bigger, stronger guy) and the oft repeated danger of thuggish friends of his joining in is very real and this often ends in severe injury, paralyses or death. Ground skills for SD should foucus on disengagement and quick reversals followed by striking to injure and distract before getting back up (ground & pound works very well on the street, at least when it’s not overdone): locks are fine if you can get them but just remember you don’t have time to fish for an arm or maneuver for a choke. If certain BJJ schools teach this all the better but BJJ is essentially a sports art and the logic and training methods are usually geared towards victory on the mat, not the street.

I don’t agree training locks on the ground exclusively means you can automatically do them standing, let alone with equal skill. If you don’t train a specific skill you’re not going to be any good at it and the dynamics of standing and ground locks and chokes are completely different, even if they’re basically the same techniques. As to the usefulness of grappling in fighting and SD we are in agreement but a true SD system should be comprehensive and teach grappling, striking and weapons, both standing and on the ground. Focussing too much on one category or range will translate into weaker performance in other areas and given the inherently chaotic nature of fighting this could cost you big time. People who only train in BJJ will be vulnerable due to weak striking and too much emphasis on the ground game, training solely in boxing will mean you’ll be almost helpless on the ground, training in a weapon system alone will lose it’s value when you don’t have a weapon handy or you lose it… The solution is clear: find out as much as you can about the various arts, pick the elements that are useful for your purpose and train a system that is simple, effective and comprehensive. This will be your best bet in physical confrontations, of course not getting oneself in bad situations is the superior option (not having to fight means 0% chance of getting hurt or killed) and hence a basic knowledge of human behaviour and common sense are a necessary complement to any fighting system, at least if your aim is to lead a safe and happy life.

My answer to your question can be summed up as: yes but only when applied wisely and as a part of an overal strategy geared towards street survival. On its own it’s less than ideal and potentially quite dangerous but the same can be said about virtually any single minded/limited style.

]]> By: Matt Klein /grapplingbjj-against-multiple-attackers-is-it-effective/comment-page-1/#comment-5072 Matt Klein Tue, 25 Jan 2011 17:05:47 +0000 /?p=2829#comment-5072 Translation here, bjj takedowns? Or is it "never mind your conversation here, just visit my silly website". Translation here, bjj takedowns? Or is it “never mind your conversation here, just visit my silly website”.
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]]> By: bjj takedowns /grapplingbjj-against-multiple-attackers-is-it-effective/comment-page-1/#comment-5055 bjj takedowns Sat, 22 Jan 2011 06:48:21 +0000 /?p=2829#comment-5055 He marcado como favorito un video de BJJ He marcado como favorito un video de BJJ

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